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Affirmative Action Stamp by PunkNarumi Affirmative Action Stamp by PunkNarumi
I don't think I ever really processed that this is a thing until I learned my school has a group dedicated to it (yes in a positive way; Berkeley has a group for everything).

The idea of inclusion based on race is almost unanimously considered bad. However, when people think of it, they think of a majority (and let's face it: regardless of the facts or variation on area, most consider white males the majority) not letting the minority in.

Why in the world would it be okay the other way around?

I'll say this now so no one thinks I'm someone who has no room to talk about this: I'm a minor, female, and half-black/half-white. Yes, I'm the minority.

However, I don't want a job or to get into college based on the fact that I am female or because my mom is black. Me checking the "African American" box should not influence my acceptance at all.

On the other end, when I go to interviews, I get the other end. I do not in any way look part black--I'm pale, freckled, and have bright blue eyes. My hair's completely straight. I look like my English/Irish side entirely. So I shouldn't be discriminated against because they need someone who is black (assuming they didn't have race on the app or I declined to answer).

Though I didn't know this was openly accepted, I did know they look at this. My other mixed friends and I have talked about this a lot. We almost always pick the more "discriminated against" minority in us to focus on in the app. Why? Because we know it'll help us win scholarships.

Why should my race or gender be even comparably noticeable next to my actual achievements? This is perpetuating discrimination, not stopping it, and it's disgusting.

Of course, that's my example that I can relate to myself. There are countless others. Ask anyone who is mixed race; they'll probably tell you similar things. Or, ask someone who is in the majority if they feel discriminated against. I've had all-white friends who spend half of their time searching for the one scholarship they're actually allowed to do, and just feeling horrible at all the ones they can't.

Same for being a female. If Bob is more qualified than me, he shouldn't lose the job just because I have boobs.

For jobs especially I don't get this. College, though it's still very wrong, I can see why they'd think "well, okay, they need a chance to show themselves/overcome their situation" (assuming low-income minority). But for jobs... who cares where they're from? Efficiency is efficiency and skill is skill.

I really, honestly didn't think people legitimately thought this was okay.

I don't remotely see how it is.
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:icondaneofscandinavy:
DaneOfScandinavy Featured By Owner 1 day ago
Agreed; affirmative action is in direct opposition to the idea of equality.
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:iconinfinityunlimited:
InfinityUnlimited Featured By Owner Apr 1, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Take away affirmative action, and you will see why we had it in the first place. 
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:iconamandapeacelovesmile:
AmandaPeaceLoveSmile Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2014  Student Photographer
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:iconinfinityunlimited:
InfinityUnlimited Featured By Owner Apr 1, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
yep.
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:iconcisp:
CISP Featured By Owner Edited Jul 15, 2014
I'm sorry to say that, but you are kind of missing the point.

Firstly 'affirmative action' is usually not about hiring somebody less qualified because of his or her specific characteristics. Instead, it is usually about choosing the candidates from a disadvantaged background from equally qualified candidates.
Secondly, the fear to be reduced to that certain aspect that warranted the 'affirmative action' is widespread and to a certain amount understandable. Nobody wants to be told that he or she only got in because they are of a certain colour, gender, minority. But the problem is actually the other way round. Quotas are not supposed to give those groups a free pass, they are to ensure that despite their social disadvantages (due to direct or indirect discrimination) they are still able to get access to certain jobs, political offices or educational degrees.
The reasoning behind these actions is to increase the number of members of minorities or disadvantaged groups in these areas to open the door for equal access. You unfortunately often need this kind of programs because old habits die hard and the prejudices of people will affect the way the hire.

That said, quotas can only be a short term solution. They have to be accompanied by genuine programs to combat the origins of why these quotas where thought to be necessary to begin with. If that isn't done, no quota on earth will achieve what it's supposed to and the 'you only got in because' sentiment will only increase.

So, yeah: Quotas are a doubled edge sword. But there is a good reason for their use under certain circumstances: To open the door for certain minorities to create equal chances and combat exclusion. The fact that there are some who got in without quotas (as admirable as that may be) does not change the fact, that widespread discrimination might none the less exist.

And regarding all those 'I hate feminism, I want equality instead'-Yellers out there. I'm all for equality. But to achieve equality, we need feminism. Because equality is about everybody having the same access to public goods, offices and opporunities. And that's not where we are at - not by a long shot and in none of the countries I know of.
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:iconinfinityunlimited:
InfinityUnlimited Featured By Owner Apr 1, 2015  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
mostly whites are the onesb itching about it.
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:iconpeteseeger:
PeteSeeger Featured By Owner Jul 17, 2014  Student Writer
Regardless of intentions, the government only weakens itself and all others by putting race over merit and is nevertheless racism. 
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:iconcisp:
CISP Featured By Owner Edited Jul 17, 2014
It does not put race over merit. Firstly: Affirmative action is not only about race (which is a rather ambiguous terms), but about discriminated groups and minorities from all ways of life. Secondly: It does not neglect merit - it's mostly about choosing a member of disadvantaged group among equally qualified peers. Thirdly: Quotas are no silver bullet that fix everything. They have their problems and they are, as I pointed out, always a double edged sword. However, they are a tool to help disenfranchised groups to overcome barriers.

It's not about neglecting merit, it's about acknowledging that merit, capacity and ambition alone are often not enough, if there's systematic discrimination within a society. It's not racism or sexism or classism but the attempt to overcome such problems. Otherwise, every program that is designed to help a disadvantaged group would automatically be discriminatory because it targets that specific group (or set of groups). But the group that gets 'discriminated' against doesn't need these programs as they already are at the advantage.

I'm not going to say that every quota program works or is well designed - and I also pointed out that they can only be a short term solution that has to be accompanied by other programs as well. But a questionable application of a mechanism does not necessarily discredit the mechanism as a whole.
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:iconamandapeacelovesmile:
AmandaPeaceLoveSmile Featured By Owner Dec 3, 2014  Student Photographer
Well said.
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:iconaquafox12:
aquafox12 Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2014
And what's amazing how, even decades later, we're STILL doing affirmative action.  And it's not just black people-- it's women too.  I'm a woman, and I'm sick of feminists.  Everyone should be equal.  Choosing a black person over a white person for a job just because he's black, is RACIST.
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:iconmobilesuitsonic:
MobileSuitSonic Featured By Owner Jun 8, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
AA is a way to be racist, by appearing to not be racist.
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:iconaquafox12:
aquafox12 Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2014
YES
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:iconpixelated--coffee:
Pixelated--Coffee Featured By Owner Apr 29, 2013
gyeh
the ignorance is
gyeh
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:iconkelpiehunterkai:
kelpiehunterkai Featured By Owner Mar 16, 2013  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
This is sooo true. My father had to take a test along with everyone else in his job to qualify for a promotion. He scored in the top 5 people out of 120. this should have put him right in the front of the line, He had the seniority in service and one of the highest grades proving his skills. But no. When the scores were applied to the promotions, every single minority person was moved up knocking my father back to number 32. THIRTY TWO after scoring 5th place. it took 3 years to get promoted because his employers "needed more minorities on the job for equality." they actually admitted this. It's sickening.

My college also practiced affirmative action. My family is lower middle class, with 4 people leaving, in the middle of, or just getting into college. We couldn't qualify for any but one grant. Why? because we aren't the right skin color. The annoying part? I make straight A's. I actually show up to class every day. I actually pay attention. I knew several of my class mates who got free rides because they got in through afirmative action. Their family made the same amount of money as mine. But they made D's. They didn't show up in class. And they cheated on every freaking test.

Don't hire people or accept students based on color. Color has nothing to do with a person. look at a persons ability to help a company or people who will try to make the best of college. This goes for all races and genders.
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:iconrighteous-scalliwag:
Righteous-Scalliwag Featured By Owner May 6, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Correct. Just...perfect. I completely agree with you :)
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:iconkelpiehunterkai:
kelpiehunterkai Featured By Owner May 7, 2013  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
Thanks! There needs to be more sensible people like us out there.
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:iconrighteous-scalliwag:
Righteous-Scalliwag Featured By Owner May 7, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
I must make clear, though, this doesn't mean I'm racist. I just think that color shouldn't matter, and affirmative action directly contradicts Martin Luther King's quote: "they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
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:iconkelpiehunterkai:
kelpiehunterkai Featured By Owner May 7, 2013  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
EXACTLY.
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:iconrighteous-scalliwag:
Righteous-Scalliwag Featured By Owner May 7, 2013  Hobbyist Traditional Artist
Yes! I'm a Caucasian in South Florida, so I completely understand.
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:iconkelpiehunterkai:
kelpiehunterkai Featured By Owner May 7, 2013  Hobbyist Artisan Crafter
:nod:
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:iconkivalagracia:
KivalaGracia Featured By Owner Oct 22, 2012  Hobbyist Artist
Truth.
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:iconcybereaglewarrior:
CyberEagleWarrior Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2012  Student Interface Designer
So what do you believe is the proper solution to the rampant inequality between the races? Just ignore it. Nah, that won't work.
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:iconebolabears:
EbolaBears Featured By Owner Aug 22, 2012
The original intent wasn't so bad, but the execution and end results are horrifically terrible.
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:iconjaredthecat:
JaredTheCat Featured By Owner Aug 9, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
It's stuff like this, that I can be much more qualified than the one black person or the one woman that applied. They will go towards them instead of me. I'm close to leaving the country over this bullshit.
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:iconalicesacco:
AliceSacco Featured By Owner Jul 28, 2012
An example of affirmative action in Italy. In some cities, schools accept foreign kids before, and if there is space they accept italian kids. The excuse? 'Foreign kids are better than italian kids'

Racism is racism, it doesn't matter what is the skin colour of the racist person or who takes advantage.
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:iconazuman:
azuman Featured By Owner Jun 20, 2012
Affirmative action is a dead issue. You would more likely find legalizing polygamy coming back as an issue then affirmative action. Some state might keep it legal, and some company might ACTUALLY hire one or two minorities based on it, but 99.99999999% of the jobs in this country are not based on it. Virtually nobody is really going to fight for it anymore. And the few that do, DON'T HAVE POWER. This is a 90S issue, not a 2010s. And yet someone always feels like they have to bring it up. If you even are bringing it up in the 2010s I got news for you: you probably ARE racist. The anti-affirmative action people won, and by a large margin. By the way, just so you know, I am also mixed. Black dad, white mom. And in the 90s, when this WAS an issue, and I was in school, and I was taking a test that asked my race, if I thought it would give me an unfair advantage to put "African American" I put Caucasian. Otherwise I put "African America" or sometimes other. But again, that was the 90s. It was universally panned. It's DEAD now. Let it go.

Also, why did someone think it was a good idea? Because of POWER. In case you didn't notice, the history of the USA up til that point hadn't exactly been shining toward minorities. They didn't GET jobs even when they WERE better. And it STILL happens. The idea was, it's hard to believe that if you have 100 jobs, that at least the 10 best non-Caucasians were not better then the 10 WORST Caucasians. If you are being racists and hiring only whites, well, we're going to come in and investigate, because that seems suspicious. In the end, overall, America wasn't in favor of that. That's OK. But if you really can't see why that was an idea at all, you just don't have enough life experience or you just don't care. I can't believe I spent this much time talking about something that will likely never have a serious impact on a significant number of people over the course of the rest of my life.
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:iconpunknarumi:
PunkNarumi Featured By Owner Jun 21, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
The problem is, I go to a school that REGULARLY holds pro-AA demonstrations to overturn Prop 209 in California. I didn't even know it was still a thing at all until I went to university.

It was a good idea at one point, but the thought that my university is genuinely considering admission affected by race really hurts me. It's completely a disgusting thought--I think the question shouldn't be on the application. If minorities are still underrepresented in the uni system, investigate the high schools.
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:iconcrimsonhussar:
CrimsonHussar Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2012  Student Artist
White guilted liberals at their finest.
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:iconinsanity8grimoire:
insanity8grimoire Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Student
You seriously think this affrimative action thing works? If it did I would have gotten any job that I'm qualified for yet I'm still struggling. Piles and piles of resumes, cover letters, and applications I turn in and nothing happens. Affirmative action is a joke and and absolute failure. The truth is no one is getting hired anywhere and everyone is suffering not just "white folks", men, and so-called "mixed" people.
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:iconpunknarumi:
PunkNarumi Featured By Owner Mar 23, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
First off, what do you mean by "mixed" people. I can assure you as a bi-racial person, I am not "mixed", I am mixed.

I wasn't implying you get jobs thrown at you.

I wasn't even implying that it's even a thing right now--as a matter of fact, it's illegal in my state. My problem is that people are trying to overturn that decision.
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:iconechotheglaceon:
echotheglaceon Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2012  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I agree with you for the most part...affirmative action is still judging people by their skin color so its just as bad, but less people are going to get upset because its the minority..its pretty stupid.
but i agree that trying to recruit a good number of minorities in colleges should be kind of important because the world isn't color blind and people are going to be racist and not give a minority the opportunity they would give a caucasian person. but i suppose there are better ways to do it than giving them more scholarship opportunities and ect. like you said :/ i have mixed feelings on the issue i guess
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:iconpaintbait:
Paintbait Featured By Owner Jan 5, 2012
Illegal in and against the Constitution of the State of Michigan. Triumph.
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:iconsiogaagusarrachtaigh:
Makes me glad I got accepted into a University and managed to get two grants. If they turned me down because I was white I would have had to slap a bitch. >:I

Brains matter. Skin pigment shouldn't.
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:iconelise-lucy:
Elise-Lucy Featured By Owner Dec 8, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
It's so true...
O think, people should not look at race or gender at all. I'm against setting minimal number of women in certain institutions etc...
It just makes discrimination deeper.

Then, some people think, they deserve everything just because they're black or female...
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:icondrunkpimp3000:
drunkpimp3000 Featured By Owner Oct 3, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
Those poor affluent white people are losing out on opportunities again. Damn. I mean, you would have a point in a society that's equal, but we still have institutional racism and this is just a way to even the playing field.
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:iconpunknarumi:
PunkNarumi Featured By Owner Oct 3, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
Ooohhhh there's your word--affluent. Not all white people are rich. That's downright stupid.
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:icondrunkpimp3000:
drunkpimp3000 Featured By Owner Oct 3, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
If that's your personal ethical stance I can respect it, but I think it's ridiculous to take away a program that could help disadvantaged people get job opportunities or a chance at higher education.
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:iconpunknarumi:
PunkNarumi Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
So someone's automatically disadvantaged because they're an ethnic minority? I think that's ridiculous. Especially in terms of, for instance this is the current issue around me, college admissions. My university system might soon take race into account.

Rather, why don't we look at economic standpoint and social situation? A rich black girl from the suburbs of Chicago is more likely to succeed than a white boy raised in, say, Oakland, California any day.
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:icondrunkpimp3000:
drunkpimp3000 Featured By Owner Oct 4, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
In America yes, minorities are discriminated on a massive basis all the time, and have historically been at a disadvantage when it comes to schooling and jobs. Hell, women are technically a majority group yet are still harassed far more and earn less on average than their male coworkers. So I don't mind a program which tries to rectify this inequality.
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:iconhawaiianstile:
hawaiianstile Featured By Owner Sep 15, 2011  Student Artisan Crafter
its true that affirmative action is biased, but it is a minor bias to counter the much bigger bias that is the entire american system, which favors those of the white race by its very design. it only makes sense to look to the source, if you want to end affirmative action you must first end white privilege.
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:iconpunknarumi:
PunkNarumi Featured By Owner Sep 18, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
As it stands now, I find that there is little or no white privilege. Beyond that, the answer to discrimination is not more discrimination. That's bullshit.
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:iconhawaiianstile:
hawaiianstile Featured By Owner Sep 18, 2011  Student Artisan Crafter
lol if your stance is to deny reality thats fine with me. but you have clearly not understood my point.
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:iconpunknarumi:
PunkNarumi Featured By Owner Sep 18, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
Then you have clearly not articulated your point.
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:iconhawaiianstile:
hawaiianstile Featured By Owner Sep 18, 2011  Student Artisan Crafter
lol thats an adorable use of the fallacy of false dilemma.
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:iconlordlycaliber:
LordlyCaliber Featured By Owner Sep 13, 2011
Affirmative action is like DRM. It's trying really really hard to do something good to counter bad people and their intentions. DRM tries to subvert pirates, and affirmative action tries to subvert racist executives/human resources people doing hiring. The problem is that these things are performed by very obtrusive rules that do almost as much harm as good when you consider how small a minority the wrong doers are.

I guess the question for this is, do you think it would be better if we had no affirmative action in post secondary schools and job markets? After all, for every racist it forces into hiring a person of differing ethnicity, it might allow 5 other employers the freedom to pick the best employee regardless of their ethnic background.
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:iconpunknarumi:
PunkNarumi Featured By Owner Sep 18, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
I think that we need to completely scrap it. I think it's wrong on all accounts. I think that we should devise a less discriminatory way to fix the issue. Just because something is the first solution that comes to mind and seems the easiest doesn't mean it's right, good, or reasonable.
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:iconlordlycaliber:
LordlyCaliber Featured By Owner Sep 22, 2011
Though I don't necessarily think affirmative action was the first solution, I'd have to agree that it no longer works in our current society. I think a lot of people seem to forget that as much technology, medical science, and globalization continue to change and evolve, so to does our society. Affirmative action was in many ways a necessity many years ago, and for that I think many people are happy that it existed as it fought a very real societal problem.

That being said, I don't think there is any possible alternative to create the same benefits without creating an equal amount of negatives when it comes to stopping racism from affecting hiring and acceptance into post secondary schools. The only possible way to do that is to find a way to test and prohibit people who are discriminatory from having positions with that power. It's a lofty idea, but one that I don't think either infallible or realistic.
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:iconkatisconfused:
KatIsConfused Featured By Owner Sep 11, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree with this. Discrimination works both ways and people seem to think being discriminated against in one way justifies preferred treatment in another. You are not putting society ahead any when you have that mentality.
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:iconpunknarumi:
PunkNarumi Featured By Owner Sep 18, 2011  Hobbyist General Artist
Exactly. I agree completely.
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